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It's de rigeur in certain camps to bash vegans wherever possible. We've all heard "vegetarian is Native American for lousy hunter" and various gym memers love to suggest that men who refuse to eat meat are inherently unmasculine, because grilling meat is what REAL men do.

There are various comments, arguments and other trollish comments made as well, and most of them are collected here, because after all The Great Minds Of The Internet are remarkably unoriginal. If "vegetarian is Native American for lousy hunter" omni is Greek for "heard it before".

But what about bacon though. What about bacon though? Just because something is salty and smells good when being fried doesn't mean it's good for you, or wholesome. There's always some dickhead posting pictures of frying steak or sizzling bacon in the thought that it'd "trigger" people. I post back pictures of abbatoir killing floors and heart disease and cancer.

But what if you were on a desert island and only had animals to eat well, honestly, I'd figure out however the "prey" animals are magically surviving without plants, and subsist the same way. The bigger question is, how is it that you don't live on a magic desert island without plant life, and yet still choose to butcher something to eat even though you have options?

See these canines? Meat. Your canines look more like those found in vegetarian gorillas from which we're descended, or that of the equally vegetarian hippo than any carnivorous animal. What about your back molars, and the bulk of your other teeth which in no way resemble the teeth of carnivores?

We're evolved to eat meat We're descended from primates, which are almost all vegetarian. Chimpanzees do occasionally eat a dead animal, and the emphasis is very much on the word occasionally. Like, less than 5% of the time. But hey, chimpanzees also commit genocide on other colonies and rape, you wanna stick with that evolutionary detour or move away from it to something more civilized?

The bigger argument I see is this. You need a considerable fuckton of tooling in order to eat that cow. You need to develop weapons to bring them down, knives with which to cut through the skin that your supposedly "canine" teeth cannot (whereas a lion can tear into one with considerable ease), and cook it in order to make it palatable or even safe. NONE of which is a function of how you are evolutionarily built. A naturally carnivorous animal, like a cat, doesn't need to do any of this at all, it's quite happy to grab a bird on the wing, and eat it raw as it is. I've only known of one person who has eaten a raw bird by grabbing it and biting it to pieces, and not only was he clinically insane but also really sick afterwards.

What do you generally eat (and generally do) without cooking? Let's see. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, roots and tubers. A cat won't eat an apple. It will look at you to question what exactly is wrong with you if you try to feed it one (though some will lick at melons or eat a tiny bit of grass if they need to make themselves throw up).

But we've been eating animals for thousands of years Just because we have doesn't mean it's moral or even healthy. Studies of human populations, especially anthropolgical ones, start seeing heart disease and diabetes in populations that consume meat in the historical records. Case study is watching Eastern nations adopt Western diets with all that saturated fat and cholesterol and watching their rates of heart disease and cancer and diabetes skyrocket.

And of course, let's look at doctors and case studies where avoiding heart disease or reversing it through diet is not only possible but probable. Both Bill Clinton and Samuel L. Jackson were advised that they had inoperable, terminal heart disease and that literally their only hope was to go to a completely, 100% plant based diet. Both men saw their heart disease reverse, in Jackson's case, completely reversing an inoperable clot of fat near his heart. Jackson has returned to a "normal diet" since, ironically because he lost too much weight for Hollywood's tastes but is in essence alive because of that lifestyle change.

But I read somewhere plants feel pain too welcome to omni thinking, where plants with no functional nervous system or brains feel pain because we know they release chemical markers in response to being eaten, but animals with functioning nervous systems and nerves do not.

Assume for a second that plants do in fact have souls and that we're condemning millions of them to death by eating them in salads. Okay, even if that were the case, harm reduction suggests that eating millions of them would be infinitely preferable to the multi-trillions of plant souls sacrificed to animal rearing so that we could have a steak instead.

Yes but my meat/milk/eggs come from humane farms Explain to me what "humane killing" is and I'll dispatch you that way if that's so wonderful. I promise that the bolt I put through your brain before hanging you by a hook through your ankle and skinning you alive will make sure you don't really feel it. Wait, why are you backing away from me, it's humane isn't it?

But I'm an apex predator/head of the food chain though No you aren't, Carol, you're an office temp. But even then, your argument is in effect that if you're bigger and crueler than another animal, aggressing it is your natural right. Let's include the You have your lifestyle choice, don't judge me for mine argument that's a kissing cousin to this one. You're forgetting that there's a third party who doesn't consent to this, the animal. Also, by your argument, if I am bigger and stronger than you and want to rape you because, well, fuck, it feels good to have sex and why should anyone judge me - who are you to do so? But that's different, because reasons, right?

Note: I am not making light of or condoning rape, naturally. I'm talking about the idiocy that "I'm bigger and stronger so I can do what I want". It's amazing how people change their tune when they find out there's always someone larger and stronger than them.

What will happen to all the animals that we don't eat? Um, they'll die of natural causes? As they were meant to?

Where do you get your Vitamin B-12 from huh? Very good point. We used to make our own, but thanks to us screwing with our diets and eating in ways we weren't meant to, we now need surgery to remove the wisdom teeth we were meant to have, and we need to supplement with B-12.

Think about this for a second. Because we've changed our diets so much, it's actually considered NORMAL and practically an adolescent rite of passage to have necessary surgery to remove four perfectly healthy teeth.

Hey, for the record, do you know where that steak got ITS B-12 from? Supplements. In fact, even people who drink milk and eat steak are advised to eat B-12 and D fortified foods, because that's no guarantee you're getting nearly enough. So I'll skip the middleman thanks and just get it straight from its non-animal original source.

Yeah but what about all the worms and bugs killed by farming for vegetables again, many more of them are killed raising feed for animals. And yes, there are people who refuse to eat root vegetables for that self same reason. Let me introduce you to Jainism, one of the oldest religions on earth.

Plant eaters are scrawny and weak and I'm a real man Vegan bulls are literally hundreds of pounds of mostly muscle. A purely plant-eating mountain gorilla could tear you limb from limb without blinking.

Yeah, I really can't imagine why people would still continue to be vegan after all these compelling arguments from the world's brightest minds.

Have I missed any? /msg me if I've missed one.

(Suggested by Pandeism Fish) What would farmers do for a living then? Er, grow food? Or find other work. We didn't feel too much angst about what slave traders would do for a living after emancipation now did we? "Your honor, I'm a pimp, it's all I know, can we please just change the law instead?"

It's de rigeur for certain personality types to go full contrarian when hearing about alternate lifestyles. Religion and sexuality are no longer fair game in most circles, but diet... well, that's good pickins'.

While I hear exactly the same comments as TheAnglican, I have a somewhat different set of responses. Mostly, to be honest, I just nod and agree that yes-you-are-clearly-superior-to-me-thank-you-for-pointing-that-out, because I do not have the patience to talk to most people about most things, and most especially things like their lunch. But if someone is generally interested and willing to learn, but for lack of previous thought on the subject they start to spout the classics, here's what I tell them.

But what if you were on a desert island and only had animals to eat? If I found myself on a desert island, I would try to eat plants first. If that did not work, I would eat animals. If that did not work, I would eat you. This is an established policy, and there is no point in lobbying against it.

See these canines? Meat. Well, no. But you do have a point that humans hands, posture and digestive system are totally evolved over the course of millions of years for getting and eating meat. However, while you were knapping stone flints, my ancestors have cunningly spent the last 10,000 years building a global agricultural complex based on GMOs. Have fun with your bow and spear.

But we've been eating animals for thousands of years! Yes. Cars, antibiotics, veganism, and computers are new. Avoid these at all costs.

But I read somewhere plants feel pain too! If you are suggesting a salt-and-oxygen based diet, please try it out for a year and get back to me. I am very interested.

But I'm an apex predator/head of the food chain! Cool. But it turns out that that's totally optional, so I'm not.

If we didn't eat all those animals, they would die anyway. Yes, but without forced breeding programs the next generation would not be born, and fewer animals would be killed in the future. Do you really feel strongly that cow #89,334,567,765 is very important, and must be born no matter what the delicious, delicious cost?

Where do you get your Vitamin B12 from? Actually, I almost never hear this question. But if you are interested, I take B12 pills to make up the difference, which I have not found to be a great burden.

What about all the worms and bugs killed by farming for vegetables? This is very sad. If you can provide pesticide-free veggies, it happens that there is a big market for that. In the meantime, I am not going to starve over a bug. Please refer to my desert island policy.

God wants us to eat meat, and gave us dominion over the animals. Your god is a piece of crap that thinks having dominion over something gives you permission to kill it for pleasure. I am much better than your god. (Warning, this almost never convinces anyone).

If people stopped eating meat, lots of people in developing countries would starve. Those people should not stop eating meat.

If people stop buying meat, the economy would take a massive hit. Don't worry, no one, not even I, has the power to turn the world vegan overnight. The markets will slowly adjust, just as they did when horses became passé, the telegraph industry collapsed, icemen were replaced with refrigerators, milkmen were replaced with... also refrigerators, and countries full of cottage laborers were replaced with roving luddites. Yes, the world will be a terrible place, but with less pollution, more forests, and fewer nasty films about chickens being mutilated. I think we'll manage.

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