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Here's another for anyone interested in the so-called separation of Church and State.

God bless,
***********

Ben Franklin's Plea

At the Constitutional Convention, 1787, James Madison recorded the following remarks made by Benjamin Franklin to the president of the Convention:

"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that 'except the Lord build the House they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel; We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Government by Human Wisdom and leave it to chance, war, and conquest.

"I therefore beg leave to move -- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that service."

Mr. Sherman seconded the motion.

The motion was generally supported in principle, with several reservations, but it failed to carry when it was realized that the Convention had no funds to arrange for the carrying out of it.



There are lots of super quotes I could provide in response to this crap.

You're misunderstanding Franklin, by the way. He was the foremost Deist of his day (after Voltaire, and before Paine published "The Age of Reason" from the Bastille).

Like I said, I could provide a lot of quotes that would prove my point. But would it prove my point? No.

Passing this crap along amongst people who agree with you is merely intellectual masturbation. Arguing with people you disagree about it with is silly at best, and breeds meanness at worst.

So let's get down to brass tacks...
I don't believe in God.
I'm an American citizen.
You believe in God.
You're an American citizen.
I respect your beliefs.
I hope you respect mine.

Why don't we work towards a society that can respect everyone, treat everyone with love and justice -- the sort of society that seeks to maximize the happiness of all, regardless of what they believe. This is the reason for the separation of Church and State, to create a great society for both of us. Chasing ghosts doesn't help.

I hope we meet someday, the right way. I'll be the guy to your right, making jokes to the nurse -- as we're giving blood.

****(SciPhi)

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